I'm fortunate to have a small group of men that I have meaningful friendships with, although they're all long-distance because I moved away from my hometown after the pandemic. Aside from them, my male peers (middle-aged, middle-class, college educated) struggle with identity now that their kids are grown up, they are on the downside of their careers (or have been laid off), and they no longer excel at sports. As a sociologist, I suspect that my experiences are common.
The gender difference in friendships is noticeable in reactions to news shared on Facebook. When my writer wife shares her successes, dozens of her women friends weigh in to say how thrilled they are her. When I do the same (I'm a songwriter and musician), most male friends respond with sarcasm or don't respond at all. Most former guy friends frustrate me and I've given up trying to connect with them.
Modern masculinity has really screwed men over. You don't get to compliment or share your feelings with male friends (because that's gay), so you end up 100% reliant on girlfriend/wife for emotional support. Not only does this suck for her, it also has sucked for society, because most of the stereotypes MRA-types trade on - that women are overly emotional, etc - stem from the fact that that's how men *use* women. Of course men don't perceive other men as being "emotional" if men aren't allowed to express emotions to each other, and ONLY seek emotional comfort from women. This is purely social / socialized difference.
One of my personal biggest pet peeves is the popular perception that men and women can't be "just friends". It seems wildly dumb to believe, but apparently a lot of people do, and when you believe that, you're just inherently going to adopt a lot of sexist beliefs and attitudes about women, because you've already relegated them to being some species separate enough from your own that they are arcane and indecipherable. Which leads men to treat women differently, which perpetuates all the sexism in our lives.
It sucks for women, but it sure sucks for men too. I sent one of my brothers-in-law a bouquet of flowers for his birthday, and the other brother-in-law had a mini freakout about how if someone sent him flowers they'd go immediately in the trash. Imagine feeling some core part of your identity is threatened by flowers! Not allowed to enjoy beauty in the world because that's gay! I feel for y'all, I really and truly do.
Well said, Kim. One unfortunate result of what you describe is that guys like me -- and likely many women, too -- give up on trying to engage with the kind of men you describe. So they'll never get the feedback they need to evolve. (Also, I love getting flowers! 😀)
On the topic of male friendships, a part of definitely seems cultural and mainly a western thing.
In other parts of the world like the Middle East or Central Asia, men tend to have very close and strong friendships that are often long lasting/durable.
Small signs of intimacy like kissing on the cheek as a greeting or hand holding tend to be less stigmatised. Even not too long ago in American history, men being more intimate in their friendships wasn’t uncommon. You can find photos of men in the 1800s being very touchy in them, far more than you’d see of photos of groups of men today.
I'm in my 40's and can't speak for the younger folks. But my experience is that males are letting the females run their social lives. In my 20's and 30's it was bars, golf, Vegas, etc. But as we grow older, mature, and go through divorces - the fun "boy's night outs" have to happen less.
I'm fortunate to have a small group of men that I have meaningful friendships with, although they're all long-distance because I moved away from my hometown after the pandemic. Aside from them, my male peers (middle-aged, middle-class, college educated) struggle with identity now that their kids are grown up, they are on the downside of their careers (or have been laid off), and they no longer excel at sports. As a sociologist, I suspect that my experiences are common.
The gender difference in friendships is noticeable in reactions to news shared on Facebook. When my writer wife shares her successes, dozens of her women friends weigh in to say how thrilled they are her. When I do the same (I'm a songwriter and musician), most male friends respond with sarcasm or don't respond at all. Most former guy friends frustrate me and I've given up trying to connect with them.
Modern masculinity has really screwed men over. You don't get to compliment or share your feelings with male friends (because that's gay), so you end up 100% reliant on girlfriend/wife for emotional support. Not only does this suck for her, it also has sucked for society, because most of the stereotypes MRA-types trade on - that women are overly emotional, etc - stem from the fact that that's how men *use* women. Of course men don't perceive other men as being "emotional" if men aren't allowed to express emotions to each other, and ONLY seek emotional comfort from women. This is purely social / socialized difference.
One of my personal biggest pet peeves is the popular perception that men and women can't be "just friends". It seems wildly dumb to believe, but apparently a lot of people do, and when you believe that, you're just inherently going to adopt a lot of sexist beliefs and attitudes about women, because you've already relegated them to being some species separate enough from your own that they are arcane and indecipherable. Which leads men to treat women differently, which perpetuates all the sexism in our lives.
It sucks for women, but it sure sucks for men too. I sent one of my brothers-in-law a bouquet of flowers for his birthday, and the other brother-in-law had a mini freakout about how if someone sent him flowers they'd go immediately in the trash. Imagine feeling some core part of your identity is threatened by flowers! Not allowed to enjoy beauty in the world because that's gay! I feel for y'all, I really and truly do.
Well said, Kim. One unfortunate result of what you describe is that guys like me -- and likely many women, too -- give up on trying to engage with the kind of men you describe. So they'll never get the feedback they need to evolve. (Also, I love getting flowers! 😀)
On the topic of male friendships, a part of definitely seems cultural and mainly a western thing.
In other parts of the world like the Middle East or Central Asia, men tend to have very close and strong friendships that are often long lasting/durable.
Small signs of intimacy like kissing on the cheek as a greeting or hand holding tend to be less stigmatised. Even not too long ago in American history, men being more intimate in their friendships wasn’t uncommon. You can find photos of men in the 1800s being very touchy in them, far more than you’d see of photos of groups of men today.
I'm in my 40's and can't speak for the younger folks. But my experience is that males are letting the females run their social lives. In my 20's and 30's it was bars, golf, Vegas, etc. But as we grow older, mature, and go through divorces - the fun "boy's night outs" have to happen less.
FYI there's a typo on the sample size for the Argument survey