Apropos this podcast, I much prefer reading the transcript. It is faster to do so, and I can stop, think, re-read, look up a word. It is more literate!
To your request at the end — yes, keep up the transcripts! I prefer essays as they’re more crafted, of course. But this was a really interesting conversation that I wouldn’t have spent a half hour listening to, but would happily read for 10 minutes while drinking coffee. Take that, orality!!!
If you compare the mode of orality: communal, in the moment, changeable, and story-based versus the mode of literacy: consumed alone, documented, linear, logical, podcasts, even though they are spoken, are a form of "literacy" communication, as it is defined in this discussion.
Derek touched on this lightly with how twitter, even though written down, mimics the style of communication associated with oral societies.
I teach at an elite college. In the last couple years I have noticed that the undergraduates won't read. Not don't read. Not can't read. Won't read. As in, won't read their textbooks. At all.
You can give them a 1 page solution to a problem and they will look at it. But tell to read a few pages of prose... nope.
And these are the best and brightest kids in their generation!
I do like the written form of the podcast. And yes, I’m from that literacy era.
McLuhan also said cars were our egos projected into the physical world. Does that make TicToc parts of both our ego and our unconscious projected into the world?
Really enjoyed this episode of the podcast but like Josh W, not as big a fan as others of the transcripts and also agree that it seems like you are writing for two different types of people— I liked when these newsletter had more original essays and had the Sunday ‘avoidance of bad news’ newsletter periodically. I know the point is probably to try and have more eyeballs (and ears) but I would hate to see the excellent essay writing disappear to be replaced with transcripts of the pod— I would like to see more of you following the topics you enjoy writing and reading about and sharing that with the rest of us, rather than just sticking with the main news topics of the minute. As mentioned before, probably in the minority here, but if looking for the right balance, might be worth considering some counterpoints/pushback.
Not as big of a fan as others of the transcripts. Personally haven’t been reading them, just listening to pod.
I’ve viewed the pods & your writing as two distinct DT engagements. Pods for commute - less formal, mostly discussion with an expert - and the essays for more critical, sit down review for us readers.
Keep them up if others enjoy, but thought you’d appreciate a counter view.
Yes, love the transcripts. One can catch more detail reading them, not be swayed by a lulling cadence, circle and memorialize insights, etc. Thank you!
First, excellent discussion, why did I write “ First “ wasn’t it obvious what was first? For me I enjoy reading your post. Probably because I can get you to shut up by simply looking away. Also much easier to backup. The ability to choose is great.
Back in the pre-internet days (say, 1980s) people read more, but not all of it was highfalutin. More books were read, but you also had celebrity gossip magazines, the Weekly World News, etc. So there was short-form, sugar coated reading out there, but it still seems like we read the long-form stuff more than we do now. These days watching an entire movie without checking your phone feels like focused productivity.
There are some examples of Trump speaking differently, more formally: his inauguration speeches, for example. And he's terrible at this form of speaking! I'm no Trump fan, but I can see the appeal of his standard off-the-cuff style.
"Maybe the age of social media really was the revenge of orality. But an age of AI would be much more like the revenge of literacy"
I think people will have an ever present AI companion that they interact with via voice. A best friend (boyfriend/girlfriend?) always there for them. This AI companion could become their portal to the world.
I think orality = speaking and literacy = writing is missing the point. While that is where those words come from, defined by comparing the style of communication between pre-writing and post-writing but pre-internet societies, I believe their definitions are a bit more subtle in the modern era. AI communicates in a logical, linear fashion, capable of referencing vast quantities of information, quantities unfathomable to "oral societies". The mode of communication with AI, in my opinion, more resembles reading a researched book than listening to a story by a fire, regardless of whether it is through text or speech.
I think the fair point is that AI allows discussion in a way traditional reading does not. However, I still believe AI promotes a more "literacy" mode of thought, compared to the "orality" mode of thought on even text based social media.
Interesting episode. Joe said something about how written cultures are more meritocratic and oral cultures learn by apprenticeship. Was there a show that once referenced apprenticeship? What better way to establish a heavy character just before social media took off.
Further to that point, the pass through business owners who are an important elite base for Trump rely on apprenticeships, just like Trump’s Dad’s family business did. That gave me a lot to think about.
Apropos this podcast, I much prefer reading the transcript. It is faster to do so, and I can stop, think, re-read, look up a word. It is more literate!
To your request at the end — yes, keep up the transcripts! I prefer essays as they’re more crafted, of course. But this was a really interesting conversation that I wouldn’t have spent a half hour listening to, but would happily read for 10 minutes while drinking coffee. Take that, orality!!!
If you compare the mode of orality: communal, in the moment, changeable, and story-based versus the mode of literacy: consumed alone, documented, linear, logical, podcasts, even though they are spoken, are a form of "literacy" communication, as it is defined in this discussion.
Derek touched on this lightly with how twitter, even though written down, mimics the style of communication associated with oral societies.
I teach at an elite college. In the last couple years I have noticed that the undergraduates won't read. Not don't read. Not can't read. Won't read. As in, won't read their textbooks. At all.
You can give them a 1 page solution to a problem and they will look at it. But tell to read a few pages of prose... nope.
And these are the best and brightest kids in their generation!
I think this supports the ToE here.
I do like the written form of the podcast. And yes, I’m from that literacy era.
McLuhan also said cars were our egos projected into the physical world. Does that make TicToc parts of both our ego and our unconscious projected into the world?
Really enjoyed this episode of the podcast but like Josh W, not as big a fan as others of the transcripts and also agree that it seems like you are writing for two different types of people— I liked when these newsletter had more original essays and had the Sunday ‘avoidance of bad news’ newsletter periodically. I know the point is probably to try and have more eyeballs (and ears) but I would hate to see the excellent essay writing disappear to be replaced with transcripts of the pod— I would like to see more of you following the topics you enjoy writing and reading about and sharing that with the rest of us, rather than just sticking with the main news topics of the minute. As mentioned before, probably in the minority here, but if looking for the right balance, might be worth considering some counterpoints/pushback.
Derek - welcome back!
Not as big of a fan as others of the transcripts. Personally haven’t been reading them, just listening to pod.
I’ve viewed the pods & your writing as two distinct DT engagements. Pods for commute - less formal, mostly discussion with an expert - and the essays for more critical, sit down review for us readers.
Keep them up if others enjoy, but thought you’d appreciate a counter view.
Yes, love the transcripts. One can catch more detail reading them, not be swayed by a lulling cadence, circle and memorialize insights, etc. Thank you!
I like the transcripts!
I love being able to read or listen. Please keep the transcripts!
I like the transcripts a lot. I far prefer reading to listening, perhaps in line with your conversation…
First, excellent discussion, why did I write “ First “ wasn’t it obvious what was first? For me I enjoy reading your post. Probably because I can get you to shut up by simply looking away. Also much easier to backup. The ability to choose is great.
so good!!
Back in the pre-internet days (say, 1980s) people read more, but not all of it was highfalutin. More books were read, but you also had celebrity gossip magazines, the Weekly World News, etc. So there was short-form, sugar coated reading out there, but it still seems like we read the long-form stuff more than we do now. These days watching an entire movie without checking your phone feels like focused productivity.
There are some examples of Trump speaking differently, more formally: his inauguration speeches, for example. And he's terrible at this form of speaking! I'm no Trump fan, but I can see the appeal of his standard off-the-cuff style.
I disagree with this point:
"Maybe the age of social media really was the revenge of orality. But an age of AI would be much more like the revenge of literacy"
I think people will have an ever present AI companion that they interact with via voice. A best friend (boyfriend/girlfriend?) always there for them. This AI companion could become their portal to the world.
I think orality = speaking and literacy = writing is missing the point. While that is where those words come from, defined by comparing the style of communication between pre-writing and post-writing but pre-internet societies, I believe their definitions are a bit more subtle in the modern era. AI communicates in a logical, linear fashion, capable of referencing vast quantities of information, quantities unfathomable to "oral societies". The mode of communication with AI, in my opinion, more resembles reading a researched book than listening to a story by a fire, regardless of whether it is through text or speech.
I think the fair point is that AI allows discussion in a way traditional reading does not. However, I still believe AI promotes a more "literacy" mode of thought, compared to the "orality" mode of thought on even text based social media.
Interesting episode. Joe said something about how written cultures are more meritocratic and oral cultures learn by apprenticeship. Was there a show that once referenced apprenticeship? What better way to establish a heavy character just before social media took off.
Further to that point, the pass through business owners who are an important elite base for Trump rely on apprenticeships, just like Trump’s Dad’s family business did. That gave me a lot to think about.