I think you are making good points, but this isn’t a contest…liberal doomerism is a real problem. My minister starts every service with a sigh about how bad things are..and how we need to be social justice warriors to fix things..I’m of the opinion that it may be better to focus on thinks you actually have a chance of fixing…if you fix something you get the pleasure of admiring your work.
Non-native speaker here, and not US-citizen: When I would be part of a study and they ask about my "mental health" I must be in a severe state of depression to give me a lower level rating. Maybe because I am male, maybe because the term "mental health" is something that feels totally artificial and made-up by experts but appicable to a normy like me. The term itself makes it like something I would nearly always give me a positive rating.
But when you ask me about my mood, you would get a transparent feedback (where I would only question the longterm-relevance about my mood.. sounds like a more short-lived state).
This is fascinating! Another interesting paradox in the left-right happiness gap is that while individual liberals are less happier, more left-wing countries tend to produce happier citizens.
As a corollary to your point that rising depression might lead to greater right-wing populism, I think that if the Democrats want to take back power, they should incorporate some happiness research into their messaging + approach. I wrote about this here: https://darbysaxbe.substack.com/p/how-the-left-can-get-happier
This is a good read, but I think it's missing the main ingredient: religion. Liberals are much less likely to be religious, and there's more and more evidence that belief in God and religious practices are beneficial to mental health and wellbeing. Dr. David DeSteno has done some good work on this (https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/10/07/david-desteno-how-god-works/), I would recommend that people look into it, and it begs the question: if we're to believe in evolution and natural selection etc, and it's objectively true that religious practices are beneficial to mental health, and that religious people are also much more likely to reproduce and raise offspring, then does it make religion good, true even? That's what I've come to believe and it's strengthened my conviction as a Christian.
Religion is mentioned -- but to be fair, only briefly. I doubt religion is doing all the work here, but it's notable that the decline in religiosity is so concentrated among liberals
Yes, and apologies I wasn't trying to imply that religion wasn't mentioned, but I think it's a major, major factor. I personally believe that we went from a society that centered God for a long time and progressed as a cohesive society - liberals and conservatives both playing their vital role in moving things forward in an ordered and loving way. But since the 60's and 70's we've lost God from the center, and instead we've focused on everything else--power, money, self-actualization and personal happiness. Also the decline in liberal religiosity is likely much larger than even studies show when you consider progressive Protestant churches which are more about social justice than about the true teachings of the bible. Regardless, I'd love to see further breakdown of liberal and conservative across religious lines, and I would strongly recommend Dr DeSteno - I heard him on Huberman Lab a few weeks ago, it was fascinating.
The point on how populism grows in popularity with depression is scary to me. Combined with my general bias that many people are depressed and scared if you tell them to be.
My bias there comes from my kids. It is common in parent groups for a kid to fall down pretty hard. The first thing they do is look to their parents. It was my observation that parents that react heavily have kids that would similarly react heavy. Parents that acknowledged the kid but did not panic would generally have kids that would shrug it off and get back up.
You saw similar with people being afraid of vaccines. Most people would just accept what their doctor suggested. People with friend groups that were pushing a fear of vaccines, though, would spread that fear. Would be interested to know if I'm largely imagining this spread.
Finally, a similar topic was explored by the online comic the Oatmeal in his comic of "How to be Perfectly Unhappy." Fun read, if you like comics.
Nearly everyone in our culture, wherever they are on the political spectrum, to some extent is negatively impacted by the very real stresses of modern life that diminish these necessities for human vitality: nutrient rich food (including fat, which our myelin and brain need to function properly), heavy physical work, sunshine, exposure to nature, in-person connection with community, quality sleep, and a sense of purpose. We've been conditioned to dismiss these things as trivial and to overmedicalize the problems that result from lacking them. Instead of correcting the deficits, we complicate, pathologize, and medicate (or deny?) our symptoms. And then we vote.
It’s much easier to be happy if you’re grateful to God for what you have in life, which is a feeling that I think is much more common among conservatives.
Interesting findings! It's hard to know which of them will wash out in the meta-analysis. One thing I'm curious about is whether liberal political beliefs cause depression or vice versa: many people (notably [Matt Yglesias](https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed)) assume the former mechanism dominates, but it's not obvious to me. Perhaps an internal locus of control causes both conservatism and happiness. Perhaps a depressive, fatalistic attitude towards everything manifests politically as a belief in systematic injustice and global climate catastrophe. These traits could be reinforced by left-wing social circles, but this relationship seems ripe for just-so narratives.
I didn't see any mention of religion. With conservatives being typically more likely to to go to church I wonder how that translates to the perception of depression and anxiety in that population.
I think one thing in current discourse that I find frustration in is how everything has to be assigned according to one’s political identity. What about the many among us who don’t really think of themselves as conservative or liberal? Derek Thompson readers are likely to be highly politically engaged, and therefore easily (most often) able to identify with liberals, but I think it’s very clear that more than half of us barely think about politics at all and can barely tell you where they are on the political spectrum. I’ll bet they’d skew these findings a bit.
Political passion is directly correlated to and driven by psychological pathology? Maybe. Clearly strong ideological views do seem to hinder rational, informed analysis and openness to uncomfortable conclusions.
Another way of approaching the problem: It starts with an assumption made by my colleague at the University where I taught for 30 years.
His view is that people are not so much affected by major issues in their lives (e.g., money, divorce, politics) as they are by the small daily hassles in their lives, picking the kids up from day care, difficulty in getting medical appointments, seeing the price of eggs in the supermarket, the refrigerator acting up, etc. etc.
Perhaps, the difference between people on the left and people on the right is that they are upset by DIFFERENT THINGS. Those small daily hassles can be mitigated by ......money!
If you have money, life is calmer. If you don't have money, those hassles add up to unhappiness. If you have money, then your sources of unhappiness are not as wearing, even though maybe powerful for a time.
There is another dimension. Studies show, consistently, that conservatives are MUCH more giving than are liberals. In other words, they DO something about their unhappiness......they are generous.
Maybe, in other words, we are comparing apples to oranges when we try to figure out the differences between conservatives' and liberals' unhappiness.
I've been saying for a decade that we've become a sloppier country across the board since 2015. For liberals, this manifests in things like "Taylor Swift owes me to become gay." In conservatives, it means embracing people like Trump and RFK Jr.
I think you are making good points, but this isn’t a contest…liberal doomerism is a real problem. My minister starts every service with a sigh about how bad things are..and how we need to be social justice warriors to fix things..I’m of the opinion that it may be better to focus on thinks you actually have a chance of fixing…if you fix something you get the pleasure of admiring your work.
Non-native speaker here, and not US-citizen: When I would be part of a study and they ask about my "mental health" I must be in a severe state of depression to give me a lower level rating. Maybe because I am male, maybe because the term "mental health" is something that feels totally artificial and made-up by experts but appicable to a normy like me. The term itself makes it like something I would nearly always give me a positive rating.
But when you ask me about my mood, you would get a transparent feedback (where I would only question the longterm-relevance about my mood.. sounds like a more short-lived state).
This is fascinating! Another interesting paradox in the left-right happiness gap is that while individual liberals are less happier, more left-wing countries tend to produce happier citizens.
As a corollary to your point that rising depression might lead to greater right-wing populism, I think that if the Democrats want to take back power, they should incorporate some happiness research into their messaging + approach. I wrote about this here: https://darbysaxbe.substack.com/p/how-the-left-can-get-happier
This is a good read, but I think it's missing the main ingredient: religion. Liberals are much less likely to be religious, and there's more and more evidence that belief in God and religious practices are beneficial to mental health and wellbeing. Dr. David DeSteno has done some good work on this (https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/10/07/david-desteno-how-god-works/), I would recommend that people look into it, and it begs the question: if we're to believe in evolution and natural selection etc, and it's objectively true that religious practices are beneficial to mental health, and that religious people are also much more likely to reproduce and raise offspring, then does it make religion good, true even? That's what I've come to believe and it's strengthened my conviction as a Christian.
Religion is mentioned -- but to be fair, only briefly. I doubt religion is doing all the work here, but it's notable that the decline in religiosity is so concentrated among liberals
Yes, and apologies I wasn't trying to imply that religion wasn't mentioned, but I think it's a major, major factor. I personally believe that we went from a society that centered God for a long time and progressed as a cohesive society - liberals and conservatives both playing their vital role in moving things forward in an ordered and loving way. But since the 60's and 70's we've lost God from the center, and instead we've focused on everything else--power, money, self-actualization and personal happiness. Also the decline in liberal religiosity is likely much larger than even studies show when you consider progressive Protestant churches which are more about social justice than about the true teachings of the bible. Regardless, I'd love to see further breakdown of liberal and conservative across religious lines, and I would strongly recommend Dr DeSteno - I heard him on Huberman Lab a few weeks ago, it was fascinating.
The point on how populism grows in popularity with depression is scary to me. Combined with my general bias that many people are depressed and scared if you tell them to be.
My bias there comes from my kids. It is common in parent groups for a kid to fall down pretty hard. The first thing they do is look to their parents. It was my observation that parents that react heavily have kids that would similarly react heavy. Parents that acknowledged the kid but did not panic would generally have kids that would shrug it off and get back up.
You saw similar with people being afraid of vaccines. Most people would just accept what their doctor suggested. People with friend groups that were pushing a fear of vaccines, though, would spread that fear. Would be interested to know if I'm largely imagining this spread.
Finally, a similar topic was explored by the online comic the Oatmeal in his comic of "How to be Perfectly Unhappy." Fun read, if you like comics.
Nearly everyone in our culture, wherever they are on the political spectrum, to some extent is negatively impacted by the very real stresses of modern life that diminish these necessities for human vitality: nutrient rich food (including fat, which our myelin and brain need to function properly), heavy physical work, sunshine, exposure to nature, in-person connection with community, quality sleep, and a sense of purpose. We've been conditioned to dismiss these things as trivial and to overmedicalize the problems that result from lacking them. Instead of correcting the deficits, we complicate, pathologize, and medicate (or deny?) our symptoms. And then we vote.
It’s much easier to be happy if you’re grateful to God for what you have in life, which is a feeling that I think is much more common among conservatives.
Interesting findings! It's hard to know which of them will wash out in the meta-analysis. One thing I'm curious about is whether liberal political beliefs cause depression or vice versa: many people (notably [Matt Yglesias](https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed)) assume the former mechanism dominates, but it's not obvious to me. Perhaps an internal locus of control causes both conservatism and happiness. Perhaps a depressive, fatalistic attitude towards everything manifests politically as a belief in systematic injustice and global climate catastrophe. These traits could be reinforced by left-wing social circles, but this relationship seems ripe for just-so narratives.
I didn't see any mention of religion. With conservatives being typically more likely to to go to church I wonder how that translates to the perception of depression and anxiety in that population.
I think one thing in current discourse that I find frustration in is how everything has to be assigned according to one’s political identity. What about the many among us who don’t really think of themselves as conservative or liberal? Derek Thompson readers are likely to be highly politically engaged, and therefore easily (most often) able to identify with liberals, but I think it’s very clear that more than half of us barely think about politics at all and can barely tell you where they are on the political spectrum. I’ll bet they’d skew these findings a bit.
Sadly, this a good reason to cancel the trial sub. A lot of NYT trolling their readers vibes here. There's plenty of it over there.
Political passion is directly correlated to and driven by psychological pathology? Maybe. Clearly strong ideological views do seem to hinder rational, informed analysis and openness to uncomfortable conclusions.
Another way of approaching the problem: It starts with an assumption made by my colleague at the University where I taught for 30 years.
His view is that people are not so much affected by major issues in their lives (e.g., money, divorce, politics) as they are by the small daily hassles in their lives, picking the kids up from day care, difficulty in getting medical appointments, seeing the price of eggs in the supermarket, the refrigerator acting up, etc. etc.
Perhaps, the difference between people on the left and people on the right is that they are upset by DIFFERENT THINGS. Those small daily hassles can be mitigated by ......money!
If you have money, life is calmer. If you don't have money, those hassles add up to unhappiness. If you have money, then your sources of unhappiness are not as wearing, even though maybe powerful for a time.
There is another dimension. Studies show, consistently, that conservatives are MUCH more giving than are liberals. In other words, they DO something about their unhappiness......they are generous.
Maybe, in other words, we are comparing apples to oranges when we try to figure out the differences between conservatives' and liberals' unhappiness.
I've been saying for a decade that we've become a sloppier country across the board since 2015. For liberals, this manifests in things like "Taylor Swift owes me to become gay." In conservatives, it means embracing people like Trump and RFK Jr.